Another Recent Newsgroup Thread about Manifold System

Here is a  series of postings about Manifold System Release 4.50 GIS that occurred in comp.infosystems.gis .... (Alternate colors are different postings in the thread... names have been removed to protect posters' privacy.)

I have just come across mapping software by Manifold (www.manifold.net) - blurb on the web site sounds impressive. 

Anybody had experience with their mapping sw - good or bad ? Particularly interested in ease of use, robustness (lock-ups ? etc), output quality, scope of analysis, speed, etc.

Have looked at other options in the past, but simply cannot justify the cost of MapInfo (several thousand NZ$) for the very limited use I have for mapping sw. Manifold product seems to be comparable with MapInfo desktop, ArcView etc, but is it ?

I'm real happy with Manifold - very easy to use, especially for folks well versed in Windows programs and database tools; Had a few "lock-ups" but mostly a case of impatience on my part - some tasks take a long time on any system; output quality - haven't really pushed this aspect - I use most of the output internal, no publishing for others, as you stated the web site shows some examples of really nice maps; Scope of analysis - seems to have all the tools I've needed plus a heck of a lot more - I've only scratched the surface - nice thing is most of the analysis tools come with the first purchase - economical options available for hard core map makers and business analysis folks - extensible via VBScript programming; Speed - hard to tell, seems plenty fast to me - much faster than ArcView on similar tasks I've tried but I haven't done any real benchmarking.

Manifold has a 30 day money back plan so go get and try it out - I doubt you'll send it back!

I think Bob's advise is sound. I have used Manifold for three and a half year, and haven't had a problem. The computer has to match the data load though. But since 64 or 128 MB is quite commonplace these days, it shouldn't be a problem. I have used the lower RAM on Win9x and the higher on NT and W2K.

The support is also good; quite fast response, friendly and accurate, I have used it three times (because I misunderstood the "manuals"  - English isn't my first language) but tge same high levels all the time...

I have been very pleased with Manifold and overall am very impressed with the product. I have encountered several lockups but have seen much improvement since adding more RAM. I would recommend buying the 4.5 release now to qualify for a discount on the 5.0 release that handles raster imagery. It will let you develop a base of knowledge that you can build on with the new release and will save you money besides. One thing to keep in mind is the design philosophy the folks at Manifold have... ..."ram is cheap, people/time are not. They are designing ver. 5.0 to "sparkle" on 1ghz and faster machines and perform well on 600mhz and faster machines, large amounts of RAM are a must. The upshot is that you'll want a real speedster machine, but it will pay off in the long run.

We've had Manifold v.5 on order since April 2000 and are still waiting for their "second quarter" release to appear. :)

Manifold is a very good system with a lot of scope. It uses all the _benefits_ of Win32, and as long as you don't mind that, it is very good choice. It is very much base on Access mdb format in part at present though it can import and export various formats.

Be sure to check this aspect relative to your intended use. What data, what cost etc. There are some good converted DCW and Manifold-optimized CDROM which the company sells. helpful.

Manifold System is not just excellent value, but it is great design too, notable for an interesting underlying perspective on what GIS is, and how data can be spatially handled. Thus the future is very bright for where one might 'go' with this system.

Documentation is impressive: 1000+pages. Clear and well illustrated. Make sure you read it all and/or print it out and keep it at your elbow when you start. There is lots more than meets the eye. Some good tutorials. Lots of powerful plugin script modules and packages or 'solvers' as they are called. The default is for VBscript.

Personally I want to use 'Python', which is something similar to VBscript, but I like it much better. Python is free, openSource, fully object-oriented, lucid, highly portable, cross-platform and has a strong on-line presence with some excellent contributed software. Soon to be part of .NET and have a higher profile win32 presence in the coming year. Python will be a great addition for scripting any GIS system. http://www.pythonlabs.com In fact I wish someone would make an entire GIS in it! - that's how good it is.. :-)

I was not been able to make Python scripting work in Manifold 4 yet. I confess did not try very hard, deciding to stick with studying the existing all the online VBscript examples. I heeded Manifold's own advice to me on this point - to learn the main functions first and wait till the new release 5 before jumping any experimental scripting in other languages. Good advice. The company is dedicated, answer the question and so with a sense of humor.. what more can you ask?

I agree you would do well to jump in now. Version 5 will be out soon.. so you'll get a terrific price break then. Manifold System 5 adds *many* impressive new features. Plus, I understand the scripting will be much more powerful also. This is significant because you have good combination of GUI with script control to everything in Manifold, so that you can solve almost any problem. And since it is Win32, there are many 3rd party libraries and tools you leverage off also. The built in tools are already very powerful and varied.

The company has been very responsive to my email questions and suggestions. Almost all my problems have been due to my lack of formal training or experience in GIS. I come from a diverse multimedia background, and so I expect and demand GIS to behave like those tools. Some of my better Manifold wishes will be in fact be answered in version 5, and I would say the company shows a serious intent to listen carefully to its customers...

So if you are looking for a system to grow with, I would say this is it. There is nothing in the price range or feature anywhere that I know of.

My 4 big wishes for Manifold:

1. That more people knew about it, so all could derive the benefits of a more vocal on-line community. Everyone using it has their heads down and are busy. Plus because the documentation and support are so good, you simply don't get a lot of "arghh how do I do this and why doesn't it work?"- questions. I would like to know how many do use it and what for. Always comforting to sort the hype from the reality.

2. That is handled LOD, level of detail stuff more instrinsically. This is more of a rendering and display issue than anything else. But to my mind, all GIS shudl defualt to a model which allows fully dynamic settgin of useful LOD paremters. MAnifold has some great auto-formatting stuff. The question is how do you harness it for more friendly automated display. But like I said I come from multimedia not GIS world.

3. That it had more export formats suitable to multimedia web delivery: SVG and SWF. [GeomediaWeb4 now also does SWF I think. They use a new ActiveCGM component to do dynamic vector client-side plugin technology, similar to SVG or SWF, but Intergraph's is Win32-only alas. But still very nice when it works]

4. That it would be ported to Linux so it could be run servers side-also. This is not likely to happen since it very much MS-based.

To solve this last point you have to look at Franck Martin's amazing work. He has been collaborating with others to develop a superb FreeGIS system. http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/fmaps-devel I think and hope they are succeeding, but it is huge undertaking, and may be some time yet before it reaches the scope of Manifold 5 [which will probably be 6+ by then]. It is opensource adn can reap the quantum rewards of programmers feedback and contribution globally _if_ they are interested.. Hard to say yet how many GIS-savvy programmers are out, there ready and able to pitch in. It only takes a few really good people to make a vast difference... and the reputation would spread very fast indeed. Like in Linux committed markets like China or Korea. A lot of people and a lot of talent.

Manifold 5 is a very big jump from 4, so I am not sure what the release date is. Before Xmas I imagine, perhaps sooner. You'll have to ask.

In reality, if one wanted to use Manifold as Linux GIS server, one could perhaps best dedicate a fast Win32 box. use it for development and client testing, then network it to a Linux server with Samba, and use all kinds of protocols to communicate: XML-RPC, SOAP etc.. Probably more powerful + cost effective to do it this way.

[End Thread]

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