The Donahue Interview: 7/18/2002

I think Howard Rosenberg of the Los Angles Times had a good take when he said: "The fairness advocate in me wanted Donahue to grant Coulter more time to state her case instead of continually stomping over her when she attempted to speak. The liberal in me applauded him for bullying someone known for smearing her leftish targets by deploying words against them carelessly."

The fun part--for me--was how clearly Donahue showed that he loathed her. Her defenders may complain about this being unfair, but she attacks liberals with even greater abandon and can hardly complain when treated in the same way by a noted liberal. Coulter was clearly a little surprised by Donahue's taking the gloves off and I think it ruffled her a bit (she's used to gentler treatment by the supposedly big bad media machine). So, with Phil swinging away, us liberals got to watch a fun brawl.

The bad part is that Phil didn't really nail her the way he could have. There are lots of factual errors in her book (covered elsewhere in AntiCoulter) that he should have patiently asked her about and then allowed her to try and answer. (I think, for example, the New York Times' Selma reference would have been a good place to start--first noted, I believe, by Tapped.) To simply toss out accusations and then move on may have been cathartic, but it was not particularly damning.

Still, it was fun. Phil does rock. Here it is, with my occassional comments…

Donahue for July 18

PHIL DONAHUE, HOST: Good evening. She's a well-known conservative whose book, Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right is on No. 1 position on the New York Times bestseller list. Looky, here.

Well, welcome, Ann Coulter. You couldn't have been meaner to me. I'm not in the book. What am I? A potted plant? And liberals are rich. If a liberal has indoor plumbing, he's a hypocrite. Liberals are sort of classist type people who go around in limousines and are not in touch with the real world.

You give me a headache. This book, I mean, on and on. I've never been so assaulted in my life.

ANN COULTER, SLANDER: Oh, thank you. You're not that assaulted. You weren't mentioned.

DONAHUE: That was the biggest thing that hurt. You're proud of what you did to Bill and Hill, aren't you? You impeached the guy.

COULTER: Thank you. You're one of the few who will give me credit for that.

DONAHUE: Well, you're right there. You were with-you played Monica's tape-recorded conversations with Linda Tripp at your house parties, holiday time.

COULTER: No, I didn't, but that's the last book. Can we talk about this book?

DONAHUE: Wait a minute. Did you or did you not play the Monica tapes in your apartment, or is it a home, at a holiday time?

COULTER: No, that is utterly preposterous. But I love that there are so many rumors about me out there, and that people want to talk about crazy things like this, rather than discuss my book.

Phil should have had his facts and sources clear, then he could have nailed this evasion. In Howard Kurtz's Washington Post article, she admitted to having heard some of the tapes before they became public. Whether in her apartment or at holiday time, I do not know.

DONAHUE: David Brock, in his book Blinded By the Right, says you did.

COULTER: Apparently he says a lot of things that aren't true, though I haven't read his book. I hear it's wonderfully edited, though, because it's edited by the same person as this book, which just came out.

DONAHUE: But you're proud that you spent $70 billion of the people's money investigating Bill Clinton?

COULTER: Are we really going to keep talking about the last book?

DONAHUE: I want you to tell me if you're proud of that. This is the first chance I've had to talk to you.

COULTER: I'm disappointed that he was not removed from office. And, as I wrote in my last book--we will get to this book in a moment, right?

I find it amusing that Coulter seems so peeved that Donahue isn't talkikng about her latest book. As if he owes it to her, an AUTHOR, to pump her book sales. Donahue has a show. She is on his show. She wants to pump her sales, but that doesn't mean that he is obliged to help her out. Stop being such a "girly-girl," Ann.

DONAHUE: Well…

COULTER: As I wrote in my last book, at the end of the introduction, the conclusion that if Clinton can get away with what he got away with, it would set a whole new standard for the entire country. And we are seeing that right now in these corporate scandals.

I think it's wonderful that these people are being taken away in cuffs and that people are angry about it. But to say that Bill Clinton had nothing to do with that, when half the people on TV saying it's fine to lie, cheat, steal, it's just about sex. Well, apparently a lot of people who run corporations think it's OK to lie if it's just about money.

I think it was incredibly corrupting for America. And I think it's astonishing that all liberals and that every Democrat defended that man on the basis of his argument, my opponents are right wing Republicans. And that's why I wrote this book.

Donahue ignores this insanity, but we don't have to. Coulter is saying (over and over again in these past few weeks) that Clinton lying about sex caused corporate executives to lie about their fraud. Caused. Insane. I'm sure none of those bastards were ever lying before Clinton put his pecker where it shoudn't have gone. Oh no, Clinton invented corporate corruption. I believe he also may have invented extortion, pornography, and anthrax. Also the Teletubbies.

DONAHUE: And to see those righteous brothers, Republicans from the House, marching from the House to the Senate, monogamous, all, that didn't embarrass you? $70 million of the people's money to look up a dress. And you brought the government to a halt for a year and a half. Nothing else was done.

Because you were out there trying to get Bubba. You couldn't get him at the polls so you were going to knock him off right in the middle of his term. That's kind of shameful. You've got to be a little bit sorry.

COULTER: In addition to Clinton's extremely persuasive argument to liberals, like you and Democrats, I shouldn't be removed from office because my opponents are right wing Republicans, there was also the very popular argument, let's move on, let's move on. I moved on a long time ago. I'm glad we impeached him.

I'm sorry we didn't remove him from office. But I think the country is having a major swing-back now. They see, after America comes under a grievous attack, the great importance of having a man of some morals and virtue in the Oval Office. And I think we can all breathe a sigh of relief that that has happened. Now, I don't think it would have been without Clinton's impeachment.

DONAHUE: Right. We will talk about the book. But you take some heavy incoming from Brock's book, which I'm sure you read.

COULTER: I did not read it. I don't know anyone who read it.

DONAHUE: Let me just tell you. He accuses you, among other things, of being an anti-Semite.

COULTER: Maybe that will help me with the Muslims.

DONAHUE: He says that you left New York because you wanted to get away from all these Jews. Did you say that?

COULTER: I find this very interesting, that I write a book saying liberals won't argue about things, instead what they do is call conservatives names. And I come on your show and all you're doing is calling me names.

Phil didn't call you an anti-Semite, Brock did. And you are avoiding the question.

DONAHUE: No, I'm not calling you. I'm saying that this is…

COULTER: Right, you're quoting other people who called me names.

DONAHUE: Well, you did say, you're telling the liberals we call people names. Listen to Ann.

COULTER: This book has been quite discredited. I thought we were going to talk about my book.

DONAHUE: You label Clinton as crazy, like a serial killer, creepier and slimier than Kennedy. A horny hick, you called him, white trash. You called all these names. Your hatred, and those who supported you…

COULTER: Not hatred…

DONAHUE: …for Clinton was pathological.

COULTER: I'm not the president of the United States. I come on your show and all you're doing is calling me names.

Again, Phil didn't call her anything. And keep in mind the many, many names Coulter calls liberals. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

DONAHUE: But you don't

COULTER: I'm not sending boys into battle to die for the country. I'm not the commander-in-chief. I'm just trying to talk about my book. I come on your show, all do you is call me names.

DONAHUE: Right. Your liberal-you also make the point that liberals somehow don't seem to get it. And all they do is argue with themselves. There's a lot…

COULTER: To the contrary, I say it's conservatives who argue with themselves, which is why every interest public policy idea for 20 years has come out of some part of the right wing. It's amazing how productive debate can be when one isn't constantly being called names and can engage in argument from the right wing.

I mean, in the past 20 years, some of the new ideas, some of which are being implemented, have been implemented, or are at least being talked about, flat packs, Star Wars, ending that…

So for Coulter, constructive debate comes when you argue with people who already agree with you? There is no point in talking to those liberals because they're just going to disagree with you. Damn, that does makes sense, don't it?

DONAHUE: The liberal catechism includes a hatred of Christians. You believe this?

COULTER: Giuliani's quality of life crimes.

DONAHUE: You don't like my question.

COULTER: No, I was just trying to finish my answer. You mischaracterized my book and I'm just trying to describe my book. All these great new ideas keep coming up because…

DONAHUE: Liberals hate America.

COULTER: I think argument actually does produce something, whereas, for 20 years all we keep hearing from liberals is, my opponent is racist, sexist, anti-Semitic. That's not an argument. This a 6-year-old argument.

DONAHUE: I just want to make sure we got this right. Liberals hate America. They hate all religions except Islam. Liberals love Islam, hate all other religions.

COULTER: Post 9/11.

Phil doesn't follow up on this, but there it is. She agrees that she thinks liberals hate America. And she says it's liberals who are preventing rational debate?

DONAHUE: Well, good for you.

COULTER: In fact, liberals do go crazy at every mention of God, certainly in a public school. Including voluntary prayers at football game. But I note that they have a very heightened interest that the terrorists at Guantanamo be free to practice their religion.

DONAHUE: All right, you're on the record as denying that you played these tapes for entertainment at your parties before the Paula Jones thing even was…

COULTER: Preposterous.

DONAHUE: Before the president was even deposed on the Paula Jones…

COULTER: Phil Donahue, do you still beat your wife? Because that's what I say to this charge.

DONAHUE: And we'll be back with Ann Coulter in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DONAHUE: The book is at No. 1 on the New York Times bestseller list. There it is, Ann Coulter. Slander is the title. The National Review on-line Web site fired you after you said that we should convert them to Christianity and kill their leaders and invade their countries. You said that.

COULTER: Also false.

DONAHUE: The National Review did not drop your column? You called them girly boys.

COULTER: Yes, they dropped my column…

DONAHUE: That's the first thing that you've acknowledged, that you did call them girly boys.

COULTER: I call a lot of people a lot of things.

DONAHUE: So you're a name caller yourself. You acknowledge that.

COULTER: I don't have any problem with invective. The title of my book is Slander, not Invective. When I call somebody a name, I assure you, it's true.

DONAHUE: Yes.

COULTER: I happen to know a lot of girly boys. I like a lot of them. It's simply a fact that they were being girly boys for dropping my column. What was incorrect was your claim, first, that they fired me or, B, that it was because of that line in that column. It was actually the next column that proposed we give an extra little look at swarthy men at airports that upset them and they refused to run.

DONAHUE: You have a call. We have a caller. Dave?

CALLER: Yes, I'm here, Phil.

DONAHUE: Go ahead.

CALLER: Yes, I'd like to know why Ann thinks the ethics of Harken and Halliburton are preferable to those of Clinton and Gore, who gave us about the best decade we've had in recent years.

COULTER: The idea that, you know, we had good weather when Clinton was in office. Actually, the economy was pretty bad until the Republican Congress came in and cut the taxes from the tax increase that Clinton had given us. Because, I mean, the Halliburton, Cheney-this is such a classic liberal hoax charge, which I describe in my book in chapter five, which is, you know, you have these complicated, tedious charges that no one could possibly follow.

It would have to be like Ross Perot with the charts and the points. And by the time everyone has figured out there's nothing there, there's no there, there. We've already heard all the-allegations he does not deny.

(CROSSTALK)

DONAHUE: So liberals are chasing Enron unfairly. They didn't game electrical energy to California, gouge middle-class, taxpaying citizens who sent their sons and daughters to war, inflated their utility bill so that they could make more money, then bail before the stock. That's fine with you.

You still want us to go after Whitewater. What a treasure trove was that. How many millions? How many months? How many people?

COULTER: Can I respond?

DONAHUE: Go ahead. Make your point.

COULTER: Actually, you're the one who wants to keep talking about Clinton. I'm the one who wants to talk about my book.

DONAHUE: Enron is fine.

COULTER: And really, I don't…

DONAHUE: Enron is a good thing?

COULTER: I don't mind Enron as much as I mind you losing the entire viewing audience when I'm trying to sell a book, by going through these tedious charges. As I say, only liberals could slander people through the boredom of their charges. They're just insinuating, saying Bush, Cheney, Enron, Enron.

DONAHUE: Nothing. Nothing at all here.

COULTER: OK, produce something.

DONAHUE: Go away, liberals.

COULTER: No…

DONAHUE: Produce something? We just had the bottom fall out of all those companies--not only Enron, but the rest of them as well.

COULTER: Right, and you know why? It's because people are lying and cheating and steeling. And who set the model for that and who defended someone who did that? We did say it's OK to lie. It's fine to lie. In fact, it's OK to perjure yourself before a federal judge.

DONAHUE: Clinton caused the Enron scandal?

COULTER: No, he caused the scandal which causes all of these scandals, which is corruption…

DONAHUE: You're the one who said you didn't want to go there. But, go ahead. You'll use Clinton as it's convenient. Go ahead. You were saying?

COULTER: You're the one who said what caused this? Yes, what caused this is Bill Clinton and a complete decline of morals. Are you saying that what these people did was legal? Because it wasn't. They are going to be arrested. And when there is-and they will to go jail. And they were willing to break the law, as was the president, the most powerful man in the universe.

And half the people on TV were saying, that's fine. That's fine because his opponents are bad people. It's just an excuse.

Clinton caused everything. EVERYTHING!!!

DONAHUE: You've grievously been unfair to some folks in here. You have New York Times columnist Frank Rich demanding Ashcroft stop monkeying around with Muslim terrorists?

COULTER: Yes.

And if you read the column, you'll find that Rich said nothing of the sort. This is a classic Coulter lie, impressive in it's complete ignoring of the facts. Rich said we should also check out anti-abortionists, some of whom have sent fake anthrax in the mail. He did not say we should ignore Muslim terrorists. Coulter just sticks that in herself. It is a lie.

DONAHUE: He said no such thing. Frank Rich is out there saying go get them.

COULTER: Yes, he did. He had a column on it.

DONAHUE: No, he didn't.

COULTER: I cite the column and I invite the viewers to look it up. It is quoted. It is footnoted. He had an entire column denouncing John Ashcroft for not meeting with the representatives.

DONAHUE: That's not monkeying around. That's not saying he should stop monkeying around.

COULTER: Oh, yes, it-look, he asked if it was one or the other.

DONAHUE: Let's, for the sake of this argument--Rich was saying…

COULTER: No, not for the sake of this argument.

DONAHUE: Rich was saying if anybody knows about terrorism, it's people who operate abortion clinics. And they have names. They know things. And they wanted to talk to Ashcroft so they could help him with this war on terror.

Wouldn't see them. Wouldn't even talk to them. That was the point…

COULTER: OK, can I respond now?

DONAHUE: Sure.

COULTER: And, moreover, he quoted the great expertise of these planned parenthood experts. Because the true terrorists are the opponents to slaughtering children in the womb. That's what we have to worry about in this country. He quoted them and what their advice would be, don't offer terrorists money.

Well, the precise quote, you know, terrorists they were looking for was, caught in response to a reward of money. That's a little embarrassing, don't you think? Listen to these people.

Well, the advice they were giving, that he quoted in his column, turned out to be 180 degrees wrong. And that was the point of this column. Concentrate on people going after abortion clinics.

DONAHUE: You accuse him of suggesting that Ashcroft and the rest should stop…

COULTER: He was not pursuing the war on terrorism seriously because he would not meet with Planned Parenthood.

DONAHUE: That isn't what you said.

COULTER: Of course it is.

DONAHUE: Liberal Lies About the American Right. Read it for yourself. This is something you might want to curl up before the fire, read. And it may make you happy, if you're on her side of the ledger. We'll look for your next book and I hope it's as successful as this one.

You're doing something right, Miss Coulter.

COULTER: Thank you.

DONAHUE: They're buying your books.

©2002 Carl Skutsch. All rights reserved.
All opinions expressed herein are those of the author unless otherwise noted
(and it goes without saying that they make more sense than Coulter's opinions.)

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