People for Better Pennsylvania Historical Records Access (PaHR-Access)
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Latest news
- November 4th, 2009 (Getting Our Bill out of Committee)
- October 24th, 2009 (Getting endorsements from Historical Organizations revised)
- August 11th, 2009 (More of what the Pennsylvania Division of Vital Records is saying)
- August 4th, 2009 (New Hampshire Birth Records to 1900 Online)
- July 1st, 2009 (New Mexico & Massachusetts Death Records; Delaware Birth Records Information Online)
- June 16th, 2009 (Idaho and Louisiana Death Certificate Information Online)
- June 13th, 2009 (The difference death certificate databases can have in doing research)
- May 14th, 2009 (Alabama, Florida, North Carolina & South Carolina Death Certificate Information Online)
- April 10th, 2009 (Humorous Genealogy Quotes)
- March 30th, 2009 (Westmoreland County Pennsylvania Electronic Government Solution)
- March 27th, 2009 (State Senator Robert D. Robbins reintroduces his own Vital Records Bill: SB 683)
- March 17th, 2009 (Michigan State Death Certificates 1897-1920)
- March 13th, 2009(Rep. Grucela has reintroduced vital records modernization bill HB 931)
- February 11th, 2009 (One of Only Five States)
- February 4th, 2009 (An Interesting Quote)
- January 20th, 2009 (The Squeaky Wheel)
- December 22nd, 2008 (Pennsylvania's new Right-To-Know Law)
- December 10th, 2008 (How this might benefit others outside of the Genealogical Community)
- November 11th, 2008 (Helping the entire Genealogical Community)
- November 6th, 2008 (The Election's effect on this effort)
- November 1st, 2008 (The Irish Connection)
- August 6th, 2008 (From the Politician's Viewpoint)
- June 14th, 2008 (More of what the Pennsylvania Division of Vital Records is saying)
- June 4th, 2008 (What the Pennsylvania Division of Vital Records is saying)
- May 25th, 2008 (What the opponents of this cause are saying)
Getting Our Bill out of Committee
Our bill (HB 931) is "Stuck in Committee". In an effort to get it out of committee and voted on by the entire PA State Assembly we could use your help in getting the head of the House Health & Human Services Committee Rep. Frank Oliver to have it voted on by that committee.
Below is a sample letter addressed to the Rep. Oliver. Feel absolutely free to change or rewrite as you please, to use one of the sample letters from the main page of this website or write your own letter. But please send a letter or email or something. Any letter or email sent is better than no message and a message not sent accomplishes nothing. Silence will not draw attention to the bill. Even if you have already sent a message about this cause it doesn't hurt to send a second one. It only shows you consider this cause to be important. It also doesn't hurt to send a message to the other committee members. The link to find them are also below:
Letter to State Representative Oliver
The members of the House Health & Human Services Committee can be found at: HHSC
Getting endorsements from historical organizations Revised
Having endorsements from historical societies and other similar organizations would carry some weight with the Pennsylvania State Legislature and Governor Rendell. We could use your help in encouraging these particular organizations to move forward in endorsing this cause and to write letters to Governor Rendell and the state legislators of their area.
We ask you to send them a message for them to do so. If you belong to or would like to see other Pennsylvania historical and genealogy organizations not listed below and that have not endorsed this cause to do so please send them a message too. A simple one or two paragraph message would help. Please include where you live and if you are a member of that organization. For a list of organizations that already have endorsed this cause see the Progress Report.
Adams County Historical Society:
website: www.achs-pa.org email: info@achs-pa.org
Butler County Historical Society:
website: http://www.butlerhistory.com/ email: bchissoc@zoominternet.net
Columbia County Historical and Genealogical Society:
website: www.colcohist-gensoc.org William Baillie (President): wncbaillie@verizon.net
Crawford County Genealogical Society:
website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pacrawgs/ William Moore (President): wbmoore@zoominternet.net
Elk County Historical Society:
website: www.elkcountyhistoricalsociety.org email: elkctyhistoricalsociety@windstream.net
Lehigh County Historical Society:
website: http://www.lchs.museum/ Jill Youngken (Curator): j_youngken@lchs.museum
Luzerne County Historical Society:
website: www.luzernecountyhistory.com email: lchs@epix.net
Montour County Genealogical Society:
website: http://www.rootsweb.com/~pamcgs/ email: mcgsceld@aol.com
Northampton County Historical and Genealogical Society:
website: www.northamptonctymuseum.org Colleen Ladlor (Director): director@northamptonctymuseum.org
Historical Society of Schuylkill County:
website: www.schuylkillhistory.org email: sch.hist@comcast.net
Warren County Historical Society:
website: www.warrenhistory.org email: warrenhistory@kinzua.net
Wayne County Historical Society:
website: www.waynehistorypa.org email: wchspa@ptd.net
More of what the Pennsylvania division of vital records is saying
Below is an exact quote from a letter recently written by the Pennsylvania Department of Health stating their latest in a string of objection's to allowing Pennsylvania death certificate's to ever become open records let alone on the Internet.
Their Claims:
"Death records contain very sensitive and confidential information, including Social Security number, cause and manner of death, contributing medical conditions and other personal information. Certain causes of death, such as suicide, sexually transmitted disease, alcohol related cirrhosis, drug overdose, and other causes remain very personal and sensitive to the families involved, even fifty years after the death occurred. By making these records available on the internet, they will be open to anyone, not just genealogists researching their own families.
Additionally, physicians who completed death certificates in the past were guaranteed confidentiality. Physicians may be less apt to provide certain sensitive information regarding cause of death if these records will at some time in the future become public records. This will result in less accurate, complete and detailed medical information being provided on death certificates and will have an immediate effect on the quality of Pennsylvania's mortality (cause of death) statistics, which are key public health indicators that are used for program planning and/or resource allocation at the national, state, and local levels.
For all of the stated reasons, death certificate information in Pennsylvania is currently released only through the issuance of a certified copy of the event to an eligible requestor. Death records may be released to immediate family members as well as extended family members who indicate a direct relationship to the decedent."
Our Counter Arguments:
Having Social Security numbers on death certificates actually helps to verify deaths. The easier it is to verify a death, the harder it is to steal that identity and the more useless it is to an identity thief. Plus, Social Security numbers are already available to the public in the Social Security Death Index. This issue is discussed in detail in the Frequently Asked Questions on this website: FAQ
The Pennsylvania Department of Health suggests that physicians will deliberately falsify information on death certificates, if they know some day they will become open records, despite the fact that it is illegal to do so and against American Medical Association policy. Physicians undoubtedly already know the importance of having accurate mortality data and the legal ramifications of willingly falsifying a death certificate. Any temptation to falsify death certificates is considerably more likely because of legal or financial concerns of the family, not potential death certificate accessibility.
In over 40 states, death certificates become open records ranging from immediately (in the case of about 12 states) to no later than 75 years after the fact (with 50 years being the most common). For the Pennsylvania Department of Health's claim to be valid, the physicians in all of these other states would have to already been prone to falsifying the cause of death for the reason claimed for about a century now. Also we are not aware of any alleged guarantee of confidentiality given to physicians when completing a death certificate, now or in the past, under any Pennsylvania statute or regulation. It seems strange that only physicians in Pennsylvania would have this problem or need this kind of shielding.
Even if the Pennsylvania Department of Health claims were partially true, does this mean these records should remain restricted forever, for century after century after century? Does it really remain an issue for a death certificate written in 1906? It is through researching such records that most of the people who have gone before us are ever remembered since only a few people ever appear in the history books. If never, ever having the cause of death revealed is of such great importance to some people, then they should be cautious about what state they or their loved ones may die in. And aside from the cause of death, all other information found on a death certificate would hardly cause much concern especially 50 years after the death.
One solution would be to exclude the cause of death information on any record available to the general public or at least the records put online. Some people, however, feel this information should be available to make it easier for them to learn their family medical history, which, if done properly, includes not just their direct ancestors but their ancestor's siblings. Another solution is to only allow extracted data from death certificates to be made available online as has been done in a number of states. However, in the over 40 states in which death certificates become open records, only two states (Tennessee and Florida) restrict knowledge of the cause of death to those with a direct relationship to the deceased and even then it is only for the first 50 years after the fact. All other persons receive a copy with the cause of death information redacted. In twelve states scanned copies of their older death certificates are already available online without any exclusions, including all the causes of death and Social Security numbers. The scanned images of death certificates for more and more states are in the process of being made available online. To our knowledge this has not caused any of the problems claimed by the Pennsylvania Department of Health.
It seems the Pennsylvania Health Department opposes any and all changes in any shape or form to the current archaic and inefficient 103 year old system. No doubt that even if every issue they raise, including that of the cause of death, were to be solved with complete satisfaction, the Department would continue to look for excuses for not allowing any change whatsoever, no matter how old a record may be or ever become. If nothing else, we would expect the Pennsylvania Health Department to be on the forefront of overcoming medical sigma.
New Hampshire Birth Records to 1900 Online
Scanned images of New Hampshire birth records to 1900 are now available online through the labs.familysearch.org website. The database often includes the mother's maiden name, but oddly does not always include the child's name.
Go to the Death Certificate Databases For Other States, Etc section of our website for the link to this database.
New Mexico & Massachusetts Death Records; Delaware Birth records information online
Extracted data from New Mexico's death certificates are now available online through the labs.familysearch.org website. The database for these death certificates does not include images of the death certificates at this time. The extracted information includes dates of birth and death and parents' names. This same website does have the scanned images of Massachusetts death records 1841-1915. It also has scanned images of Delaware birth records 1861-1908.
Go to the Death Certificate Databases For Other States, Etc section of our website for links to these three databases.
Idaho and Louisiana death certificate information online
Extracted data from Idaho and Louisiana's death certificates are now available online through the labs.familysearch.org website. The databases for the death certificates of both states do not include images of the death certificates at this time. The extracted information includes dates of birth and death and parents' names.
Go to the Death Certificate Databases For Other States, Etc section of our website for links to these two databases.
The difference death certificate databases can have in doing research
To illustrate the difference online death certificate databases can make in doing research (especially when you can search by the parents' names), in ways that are not always practical or even possible otherwise, we refer to the following examples.
One researcher was trying to find information on her ancestor William Hosey who according to his Ohio death certificate and the census records was born in Indiana in 1832. Also according to his death certificate his parents were Andrew Hosey and Mary nee Hutton.
However, in checking the Ohio Death Certificate database for these same parents (the link can be found through the main page of this website) the death certificate for another child of Andrew and Mary was found, that of Kate, wife of William H. Dorworth. It indicated that not only was Kate born in Rhimersburg (Rimersburg), Pennsylvania in 1849 but that Andrew was also born in Rhimersburg. Sure enough when the census for 1850 was checked for Rimersburg it listed Andrew and Mary Hosey with a son William and a daughter Catherine both of the right age.
The above example also shows how important finding more than one death certificate can be when tracing back especially when the information on your ancestor's death certificate may be incorrect or incomplete. Here is another.
Another researcher was trying to determine where in Ireland her immigrant ancestor William Koyle (who lived in Missouri) was from. She also didn't know where in Maryland William's wife Mary was born or her maiden name. In checking the Missouri death certificate database (the link can be found through the main page of this website) for the known children of William and Mary the death certificates of two of their sons were found. Both indicated Mary's maiden name was McDonald. One death certificate indicated William was born in Ireland and Mary in Maryland (as was already known). However, the other indicated William was born Belrash, Ireland and Mary was born in Baltimore, Maryland.
As any veteran researcher can tell you the information found in records and even that etched in stone is not always right. However, greater access to more records, as in the case of online death certificate databases, can help you go in the right direction.
Alabama, Florida, North Carolina & South Carolina death certificate information online
Extracted data from Alabama & Florida's death certificates are now available online through the labs.familysearch.org website. The databases for the death certificates of both states do not include images of the death certificates at this time. The extracted information includes dates of birth and death and parents' names.
However, images for North Carolina and South Carolina's death certificates are now available online through the same website.
Go to the Death Certificate Databases For Other States, Etc section of our website for links to these four databases.
Humorous Genealogy quotes
"Only a Genealogist regards a step backwards as progress".
"If you are having trouble finding your relatives just win the lottery"
"Why waste your money looking up your
family tree? Just go into politics and your opponents will do it for you!" --
Mark Twain
For more genealogy humor go to: http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~families/halsey/humor.html.
Westmoreland County Pennsylvania Electronic Government Solution
The County of Westmoreland, Pennsylvania has put some of its records online mostly in the form of expanded indexes: http://westmorelandweb400.us:8088/EGSPublicAccess.htm. These include property, marriage and estate records, all of which are open records in Pennsylvania without any waiting period or moratorium before the general public can see these records. If these records from a Pennsylvania county office can be online why not death certificates more than 50 years old? Do these records contain information which is that much less "private" than death certificates more than 50 years old? In 41 states death certificates eventually become open records and in 11 they are online. But some claim death certificates in Pennsylvania should always and forever remain "private", let alone on the internet, no matter how long ago the person died.
State Senator Robert D. Robbins reintroduces his own Vital Records Bill: SB 683
The introduction of bills related to our cause does not at all mean it will become law and our task is done. Far from it. Without continually putting pressure on and showing support a bill can easily go nowhere. If you haven't written a letter, sent a message, or visited a legislator please do so. Each of these efforts has an accumulative effect and helps to push a bill through the legislative process and to ensure the Governor will sign the bill once it passes both houses. Unless you let the Pennsylvania Legislators and Governor Rendell know of your support for this cause they can only assume you don't care.
Senator Robert Robbins has reintroduced his bill from last year's session on the public disclosure of Pennsylvania birth and death certificates Senate Bill 683. His bill calls for birth records more than 75 years old and death records more than 50 years old to become open records and available to the public at large. Use this link to see the actual wording of the bill: Click here to see this bill. While this bill is a very big step in the right direction it does not require that they be available online or in any way directly accessible by the public such as at the State Archives as has been done in New Jersey and Louisiana for example.
Michigan State Death certificates 1897-1920
The Library of Michigan, the state library, has as of today started a database called Search Michigan. Among the many digitized records on this website are that state's death records from 1897 to 1920. These are scans of the actual death certificates similar to what we are asking for Pennsylvania to do. More can be found on this website by going to the link for Death Certificates Databases for Other States, Etc. found on the main page of this website. We understand they are working on getting the death certificates from 1921-1930 added to this database.
Rep. Grucela has reintroduced vital records modernization bill HB 931
Because of time constraints bills HB 2543 and SB 1378 introduced into the Pennsylvania House and Senate last year on our behalf were never gotten to before the 2007-2008 session ended. Also because the Pennsylvania State Assembly has started a new session it has become necessary to have this legislation reintroduced. State Representative Richard Grucela, who introduced the bill in the House last year for us, has reintroduced this Vital Records Modernization Bill on our behalf and it has been given the designation of HB 931 for the 2009-2010 session and assigned to the Health and Human Services Committee. Help us have this bill become law by urging the state representatives (especially those on this committee) to support HB 931. All messages sent to state legislators and Governor Rendell in whatever form, no matter how short and even if you have already written, all help. Remaining silent won't get them to do anything. Click here to see HB 931.
Here is the list of the 69 Pennsylvania state representatives who are cosponsors of this bill: William Adolph, John Bear, Robert Belfanti, Karen Beyer, Joseph Brennan, Thomas Caltagirone, Mike Carroll, Paul Clymer, Mark Cohen, Jim Cox, Tom Creighton, Lawrence Curry, Bryan Cutler, Craig Dally, Mike Fleck, Robert Freeman, John Galloway, Richard Geist, Camille George, Jaret Gibbons, Neal Goodman, Richard Grucela, Gary Haluska, Ted Harhai, Julie Harhart, Patrick Harkins, Susan Helm, Tim Hennessey, John Hornaman, Scott Hutchinson, William Kortz, Nick Kotik, Deberah Kula, Mark Longietti, Tim Mahoney, Jennifer Mann, Joseph Markosek, Keith McCall, Anthony Melio, Carl Metzgar, Nicholas A. Micozzie, David Millard, Ron Miller, Phyllis Mundy, Kevin Murphy, Mark Mustio, Bernie O'Neill, John Pallone, Cherelle Parker, John Payne, Merle Phillips, Thomas Quigley, Harry Readshaw, Douglas Reichley, Todd Rock, Steve Samuelson, Dante Santoni, Stan Saylor, Mario Scavello, John Siptroth, Ken Smith, Matthew Smith, Timothy Solobay, Jerry Stern, Randy Vulakovich, Chelsa Wagner, Katharine Watson, Jesse White and Rosita C. Youngblood. In case you are wondering there are a total of 203 Pennsylvania state representatives. Having 69 cosponsors on a bill is considered very good.
To find contact information for Pennsylvania's state representatives go to:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/representatives_alpha.cfm
For the House Health and Human Services Committee go to:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/cteeInfo/cteeInfo.cfm?cde=20&body=H
We are currently working on getting this legislation reintroduced in the Senate.
one of only five states
There are currently 11 states for which the actual scanned images of their older state death certificates are available online. We are aware of at least four states that are in the process of doing the same.
From what we have been able to find there are 23 other states for which there are online indexes for state death certificates, many of which are less than 50 years old (however access in two of these states to the death certificates themselves is indefinitely restricted).
In 9 more states (plus Washington D.C.) the state death certificates at least at some point become open records (death certificates in a total of forty-one states eventually become open records).
Additionally 2 more states allow state death certificates to be obtained for genealogical purposes 75 years after the death event.
This makes a total of 45 states (plus Washington D.C.) where there are are online databases, indexes, where death certificates eventually become open records and/or can be obtained for genealogical purposes.
It is only in Pennsylvania and 4 other states in which access to all state death certificates, regardless of how old they may be or ever will become, is indefinitely severely limited without even so much as a publicly accessible index. It is only in 7 states (including Pennsylvania) in which state death certificates do not eventually become open records or at least in the case of 2 states become accessible for genealogical purposes.
Unless the law in Pennsylvania is changed this mountain of what is probably one of the single largest sources of genealogical data in Pennsylvania will be remain very severely restricted century after century after century.
an interesting quote
Stephen P.H. Frakes of Salem, Illinois sent us this interesting quote by the 18th century English notable Edmund Burke:
"Those who do not treasure up the memory of their ancestors do not deserve to be remembered by posterity"
In other words the best way for you to be remembered in the future is to remember those in the past. If you don't consider it important to remember your ancestors neither will your descendents.
the squeaky wheel
As discussed earlier in the August 6th, 2008 entry titled "From the Politician's Viewpoint", Pennsylvania state legislators and the Governor are constantly bombarded with ideas and causes. As one Pennsylvania state legislator said without exaggeration there are probably 10,000 pitched to them each year. Of these over 2,000 are introduced as bills each year. Imagine yourself trying to figure out each work day which ones of an average of 8 bills and 40 causes and ideas are worthy and important.
Since politicians, just like anyone else, are not mind-readers and most causes like this one are not asked in a Gallup poll the only way the politicians have to know that this or any other cause has widespread support is by having as many people and organizations as possible speak up. Otherwise, just like anyone else, the politicians can only assume there isn't wide spread support and that this cause, especially an issue they may not know much about, isn't a worthy and important cause to all that many people.
That's not to say the Pennsylvania state legislators and the Governor will do something anyway. It is not realistic to expect them to do something on their own especially when the PA Division of Vital Records would prefer they leave the current system exactly as it is not matter how inefficient it might be or how poorly it serves the public. This cause needs to be brought to their attention over and over again. As a state legislator put it "It really is about the squeaky wheel". Pennsylvania's new Puppy Mill Law and Open Records Law are two examples of laws being passed mostly because many people and numerous organizations spoke up. The state legislators and the Governor were bombarded with letters, faxes, emails, phone calls and personal visits over and over and over again.
Wishful thinking and just talking about doing something won't change a thing. Letters and messages not sent accomplish nothing. Any letter, email, etc, even if a form letter, is better than sending nothing. Otherwise nothing will change and we will be stuck with the same old archaic and restricted system now in place quite possibly for decades to come.
Politicians generally don't compile lists of who has already sent them messages, letters, signed a petition, etc. For the most part they look at how many they receive. So there is no reason why everyone who wants to cannot send more than one, if not many, emails, letters, etc. Besides it lets the Pennsylvania state legislators and the Governor know you are serious about this cause.
As stated once before the bottom line is if you don't consider this cause important enough to do something why should the Pennsylvania state legislators and the Governor? In other words the more serious we are about wanting this the more serious they will be in doing something.
Pennsylvania's new right-to-know law
As discussed under Frequently Asked Questions and also known as the Open Records Law the new law (which takes affect January 1, 2009) changes Pennsylvania from being one of the worst states on access to government records to being one of the better ones, but it does not change the restricted status of state birth and death records one bit. This law only affects those records that are not specifically restricted by law. In other words those records which are not specifically restricted by law are to be considered open records and open to examination by the public. Pennsylvania state birth and death records are unquestionably restricted by existing law.
The Open Records Law does help in it that changes the general attitude towards having much easier and more open access to records held by the state government but as indicated it does not make it any easier to get access to state birth and death records. We still need to push for a change in the Vital Records Law.
How this might benefit others outside of the genealogical community
In addition to stopping identity theft of deceased persons and assisting people in learning more about their family medical histories, having greater access to Pennsylvania's state death certificates could benefit a number of people and organizations that have little or no interest in genealogy or family history.
Funeral Directors and Cemeteries: Many cemeteries and sometimes even funeral directors have incomplete or missing records. Since most death certificates indicate where the person was buried and who handled the burial, funeral directors and cemeteries could use the proposed database to update their records when needed and to facilitate responses to persons requesting information regarding burials.
Most funeral directors and cemeteries have probably been contacted by a number of people who are trying to find out when someone died or where the person is buried. Since requesters rarely have the death certificate information and are sometimes trying to discover this information in order to obtain a death certificate it often becomes a fishing expedition to determine which funeral director handled the burial or which cemetery the person is buried in. The result is a number of these requests are misdirected and waste the time of the funeral directors and cemeteries that were not involved in the burial. At least if after having this data online when a cemetery or funeral home is contacted it will more likely be because they did actually handle the burial.
Cemetery and Graveyard Lists: For various reasons many organizations and individuals have compiled lists of tombstone inscriptions. It goes without saying that many grave markers are difficult or even impossible to read. Often it is only possible to make out part of the inscription. Also, in most cemeteries, a significant number of persons buried there have no grave marker. For example, even in modern cemeteries, it is not uncommon to find plots of entire families with markers for only one or two individuals.
The proposed database would make it possible for compilers to easily check death certificates for the missing information on the grave marker. Also, if there are no burial records for the cemetery, or the existing list is incomplete, compilers would be able to determine the names and dates of individuals buried there without grave markers.
Historic Figures and Disasters: Many veteran organizations, scholars, historians and historical societies could take advantage of greater access to Pennsylvania's vital records to allow them to find more information on the specific veterans or historic figures they are interested in, particularly when the information they have is incomplete. Perhaps they are missing the date of death, don't know the burial place or are not sure when the person was born, etc. This is especially true of people and groups who are trying to find information on veterans from the Civil War to the present.
In other cases scholars and historians are researching a particular disaster such as in a flood, fire or mine. One example might be a historian researching the 1908 Rhoads Opera House Fire in Boyertown, PA, in which 171 people, including entire families, perished. Having access to the death certificates at that time would allow the historian to find information on each and every person who died in the disaster that cannot be found elsewhere. Under the current restrictions a researcher is permitted to obtain only the death certificates of those persons he or she is directly and closely related to (this restriction unfairly prohibits all historians from obtaining valuable information to be found on death certificates regardless of how long ago the person died). But even if a researcher was allowed to request these death certificates it would cost the researcher at $9 apiece $1539 to obtain all of them.
helping the entire genealogical community
For some researchers who do not have much of a Pennsylvania genealogical connection or if they do the people they are interested in left Pennsylvania before the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania started to record deaths in 1906 this cause wouldn’t seem important to them. After all it wouldn’t help them in their research. But perhaps they should consider the indirect impact this sort of effort could have on their research.
The Next State: As each state makes its vital records available online the easier it should be to get the next state to do the same. The fact that several other states have already done so greatly helps our argument for Pennsylvania to do it as well. The more people in the genealogical community speak up and the more attention they bring to genealogical issues in general the more access and preservation of historical records will be considered by those who control the records. Not speaking up allows those who don’t care to decide what records we can have access to and to what degree historical records are preserved.
Unexpected Sources: You cannot always be sure where you might find the record of the person you are looking for. Two examples illustrate what we are talking about. In accumulating data on all the descendents of a common ancestor one researcher found a record where he didn’t expect it. One relative he found in the Ohio death certificate database was born in Oklahoma and moved with his parents to Washington State. The researcher has no idea how this relative ended up dead in Ohio. Another researcher had considerable trouble trying to find the death certificate of her great-grandfather. He was born in Pennsylvania. He lived in Pennsylvania and he is buried in Pennsylvania. Logic says he would have died in Pennsylvania and therefore he would have a Pennsylvania death certificate. It was only after spending a fair amount of money for extended searches did she learn he had died in Texas in an accident and therefore had a Texas death certificate.
Parallel Research: Another impact would be in the use of what is known as Parallel Research. When you are stuck at a roadblock and cannot trace further back rather than concentrate solely on your direct ancestor try finding something on their siblings when they are known. One researcher’s ancestor died in 1883 long before Pennsylvania started recording deaths. He couldn’t determine who her parents were, but he knew who her siblings were by her obituary. It turns out this ancestor’s sister died in 1916 and her death certificate provided the names of the parents including the mother’s maiden name. The parents were born in the 1780’s. So even though Pennsylvania didn’t start to record death certificates until 1906 the information that can be found on them can reach back much further than you might think as well as across the country. You might find that the death certificate of a sibling in a state other than the one your ancestor died in has the very information you are looking for.
Sometimes roadblocks (brick walls) should be seen as detours rather than dead ends.
the election's effect on this effort (old)
Since Governor Rendell and most of the Pennsylvania state legislators will continue to be in office the election has no significant effect on this effort. However it does have two effects. As of January 6th, 2009 it replaces 33 state legislators and makes it necessary to reintroduce our bills because it will be a new session of the General Assembly. The bills will receive new numbers at that time. Letters and messages (even with the existing bill numbers) sent to the Governor and the legislators who remain in office will still very much help this effort. The only important drawback are any letters and messages sent to those legislators who are being replaced. It is unlikely those letters and messages will be passed onto the new legislators.
Any new letters or messages to these few new legislators should be put on hold until the new contact information for them can be obtained. It would be most helpful if those who wrote to the outgoing legislators (including historical and genealogical organizations) would write again to the new legislators when they take office.
The outgoing legislators are:
Senators: Gibson Armstrong, Vincent Fumo, Gerald LaValle, Roger Madigan, Terry Punt, Bob Regola, James Rhoades and Constance Williams.
Representatives: Bob Bastian, Lisa Bennington, Vince Biancucci, Thomas Blackwell, Steven Cappelli, Art Hershey, Harold James, George Kenney, Chris King, Daylin Leach, Beverly Mackereth, Fred McIlhattan, Jay Moyer, Jerry Nailor, Steven Nickol, Thomas Petrone, Sean Ramaley, Ron Raymond, Carole Rubley, Jess Stairs, David Steil, Dan Surra, Thomas Tangretti, Edward Wojnaroski, and Tom Yewcic.
the Irish connection
We have heard from people from not only from throughout Pennsylvania and the United States but many other countries including a number in Canada with Pennsylvania ancestors. Others we have heard from are Americans who are living aboard in Mexico, Costa Rica, France and England. Interestingly we have also heard from people in England, Scotland, Ireland, New Zealand and Australia who are trying to find the American descendents of a common ancestor. The following is an article written for us by Brendan Tormey of Ireland. No doubt there are similar stories for other countries where they want to know what happen to many of the emigrants from their country, especially where the records of them in their native land are missing or incomplete.
As genealogists and family historians, we, along with many others, rely on a variety of source documents to reconstruct family trees. One of the documents of particular importance in this research is death certificates. The information contained in death certificates such as the names of the parents of the deceased person is invaluable and often cannot be found anywhere else. It is also useful in documenting family health history and what to look out for in health matters. For instance eyesight seems to be a problem in our particular family.
In Ireland the Public Record Office was opened in 1867 and from then until around 1922, the Office was the centre for the collection and cataloguing of national records. Unfortunately, this building suffered devastating fire damage during the Civil War in 1922 and many records were destroyed, in particular the nineteenth century census returns, Church of Ireland parish records and the enormous collection of original wills.
A lot of people from Ireland went to the States and we think that their lives and work should be remembered here in their homeland. Some of these were our relatives and about whom we would never have known except for information held in the records to be found in the country they migrated to.
With so many emigrants and their descendents it would become quite expensive to obtain the various vital records that exist on them in the United States. Obtaining the information through other means, assuming it could be done, would be equally quite expensive. Also many people, like ourselves cannot travel such long distances to view the records, so for all practical purposes the internet is the only tool for us.
We in Ireland appreciate very much accessibility to these as we have a gap in our own sources due to fire damage in 1922 in which a lot of invaluable data was destroyed. We cannot emphasise enough the importance of having greater access to these historical documents.
We believe that their use for illegal purposes can be easily curtailed. It is not outside our intellect to devise methods to do this.
From all in Ireland
Brendan Tormey
Sonya Tormey-Brierton
Patricia Tormey-McCarthy
From the politician's viewpoint
Perhaps having a better understanding of the political process will explain why we ask for as many letters, emails, etc. as possible to be sent to Pennsylvania state legislators and Governor. Some people seem to have the impression that, once a legislator or a governor knows about a cause and learns what issues are involved, they either are or are not interested in favoring the cause and will or will not do something. Also that somehow they should automatically know this is a worthy cause with widespread support. Otherwise, some believe, there isn't much point in anyone else also writing to them since they already know about it.
On a regular basis most of these politicians are constantly bombarded by colleagues, constituents and others who want help with this or that issue. There are well over 2,000 bills introduced each year in the Pennsylvania Legislature (known as the General Assembly). This is undoubtedly only a small percentage of ideas that are actually written into a bill. Imagine how many thousands and thousands of ideas and suggestions are made each year to the legislators and the Governor that never make it into a bill or are otherwise never acted on.
With so many bills, ideas, issues and interests vying for attention the only way for our cause, any cause, to be seen as important is to make sure it is heard as loudly and often as possible. This is best accomplished by a grassroots effort of having as many people as possible join the chorus. Doing little or nothing is the best way to end up with nothing accomplished when all is said and done. This will not happen on its own and we cannot expect someone else will do it for us.
Please let the politicians in Harrisburg know you support this cause. The more they hear from people the more each and every one of them will realize just how much popular support this cause has especially if they are sent messages personally. Otherwise they have no way of knowing it does and can only assume it doesn't. The most effective way is by telling each one of them directly since they don't usually know what messages or how many messages their colleagues also received. Generally they can only go by what they have been sent personally.
The bottom line is if you don't consider this cause important enough to do something why should they? In other words the more serious we are about wanting this the more serious the politicians will be in doing something.
More of what the Pennsylvania division of vital records is saying
Another excuse given by the Pennsylvania Division of Vital Records for not allowing any of the state death certificates to ever be made open records let alone available on the internet is the concern about the Social Security numbers written on death certificates (mostly with death certificates starting we believe in the 1970's).
Scanned images of the death certificates for the states of Arizona, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri, Ohio, Texas, Utah and West Virginia are available online. In 40 states the state death certificates eventually become open records ranging anywhere from immediately to no later than 75 years after the death. These include death certificates with Social Security numbers on them.
The California Death Index 1940-1997, which is more like an extraction of California deaths than just an index, includes the Social Security numbers of the people in this index and you can even look the person up by their Social Security number. Since it is a database of extracted information and not of the death certificates themselves it would have been very easy to have left the Social Security numbers out of this database. If California and these other states aren't having the kind of problems PA Vital Records claims would happen because the Social Security numbers of deceased persons would be revealed why would it happen with Pennsylvania death certificates? And notice that with the California Death Index most of it covers deaths less than 50 years old and as little as 11 years ago.
The Social Security Death Master File (better known as the Social Security Death Index) contains the names, dates, places and Social Security numbers of deceased persons. Rather than contribute to identity theft and fraud this public database actually proactively thwarts identity theft and fraud by making it easy to verify deaths. We understand government agencies, banks, insurance and credit card companies use it all the time to verify deaths and to stop the misuse of a deceased person's Social Security number. The easier it is to verify a death the harder it becomes for anyone to steal or misuse the identity of deceased person.
By the way Jimmy Durante’s Social Security number was 112-10-9800; Karen Carpenter's was 564-82-9174; Rock Hudson's was 354-14-0316. This information was found in the California Death Index. The Social Security number for the late Mayor of Philadelphia Frank Rizzo's was 182-18-8165; Fred Rogers' (Mr. Rogers) was 207-24-5400; Governor Bob Casey's was 161-26-3777; George Burns’ was 568-03-7361; Frank Sinatra’s was 138-16-0442; and Johnny Carson's was 508-14-8695. And in case you are wondering Elvis Presley's Social Security number was 409-52-2002. These numbers were found in the Social Security Death Index. Every person listed here died less than 50 years ago.
Still more on Vital Records objections to come.
what the Pennsylvania division of vital records is saying
Through several sources we have learned much about Pennsylvania Division of Vital Records' opposition and objections to this cause. Their basic position is one of not wanting to make any changes to the current system in any way, shape or form. None whatsoever. Some of the excuses they have come up with are literally laughable and some even insulting.
For starters Vital Records has suggested that researchers should not rely on death certificates for genealogy information and that somehow the same information can find in census records. They have made this uninformed suggestion despite the fact nearly all the information that is on a death certificate cannot be found in census records such as the dates of birth and death, parents' names, burial place, etc. Sometimes the only place this information can be found is on the death certificate.
Another excuse is what we call the Elvis Factor. Yes, we're talking about Elvis Presley. According to Vital Records the tabloids want to get a copy of his death certificate and so it has to be kept under lock and key to prevent this. Vital Records claims the same sort of thing could happen with Pennsylvania's public figures even after a lapse of 50 years. As part of this claim they say the news media and others would want to get the death certificates of the late Philadelphia Mayor Frank Rizzo, Fred Rogers (Mr. Rogers), Pennsylvania Governor Bob Casey, U.S. Senator John Heinz and the passengers and crew of Flight 93 and that this would interfere in the privacy of the families.
Will anyone really care all that much in the year 2041 what Frank Rizzo or John Heinz had died of? Bob Casey in 2050? Fred Rogers in 2053? Does anyone really care all that much now? Without a doubt California has more celebrities than any other state. The news media jumps all over every little thing that happens there. Why isn't California having these kinds of problems where there is no waiting period (let alone a 50 year waiting period) for a death certificate to become an open record?
Now back to Elvis. In the State of Tennessee only certified death certificates less than 50 years old are restricted to family members and the cause of death is redacted for any non-certified copy issued. After 50 years ALL Tennessee state death certificates are open to the general public without restriction including information about the cause of death. So in the year 2027 Elvis Presley's death certificate will be open to the general public without restriction including what the cause of death was. Shelby County, where Memphis lies, already has its deaths certificates more than 50 years old available online. In fact Shelby County also has an index for deaths less than 50 years old. Yes, you can indeed find Elvis A. Presley who died August 16, 1977 at age 42 and divorced listed in this index. By the way his death certificate number is 33157 (the website for Shelby County deaths can be found under Deaths Certificate Databases In Other States Etc section of our website).
To begin with it is a bit ridiculous to take one colossal exception, such as with Elvis, and say this is why ALL death certificates should be restricted indefinitely. It is especially ironic for PA Vital Records to try to claim our proposal should never be implemented because of the Elvis Factor when the very county he died in already has their death certificates more than 50 years old online and an index of deaths just like we are saying the State of Pennsylvania should have.
More on Vital Records objections to come.
what the opponents of this cause are saying
Fortunately the opposition and the number of opponents to this cause is rather small. The biggest problem in reaching our goal is indifference since most people do not care one way or another about this. The three biggest objections to this cause are concerns about privacy, costs and identity theft. These questions are addressed under the Frequently Asked Questions section of this website. While there are valid reasons to be concerned about privacy a few people are so fanatical about privacy they claim these records should never, ever be made public even after 100 years or even several hundred years.
Some of the comments we have heard go far beyond a lack of being informed about how our proposal would actually reduce the chances of identity theft of deceased persons and how the costs can be dealt with. One reason given was why should the Pennsylvania taxpayer pay for something that will not be used by all Pennsylvania taxpayers. Another excuse in a similar vein was why should the Pennsylvania taxpayer pay for something people in other states would be able to use. Imagine how many existing programs would have to be eliminated if everything in Pennsylvania State Government had to meet these two requirements. The first thing that would have to go would be tax monies for historical societies and museums since only a small portion of Pennsylvanians patronize them and out of state residents visit them as well.
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Tim Gruber
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