Remembering the Rutland
Rutland Q&A

-page 13-

Q. #121   (05/27/02)

I wish to model the Rutland business car (No. 99, the Ethan Allen) and the diner (No. 900). I will need a plan or photo of both sides of each car.Can anyone help me? Thank you.

-Armand Premo

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Q. #122   (09/01/02) 

Does anyone have an idea as to the height of the repacement smokestacks on the G-34s?

-Armand Premo

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Q. #123   (09/01/02) 

This may surprise many readers. Are you aware that 0-8-0 #110 was the Norwood switcher in the late thirties? Does anyone know how long #110 was the Norwood switcher?

-Armand Premo

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Q. #124   (09/01/02) 

I am curious about the "all green" PS-1s discussed in the PS-1 Forum. I have never seen a photo of one and thus far can't find anyone who has a copy of the Rutland Newsliner issue with the photo on the back cover that is referred to in the forum. Is there any way to obtain a copy of this issue, or a copy of the photo? Also, what shade of green are we talking here? The same green as on the lower half of the "standard" Rutland PS-1 scheme, or something different? Thanks!

-Mark Jacob

A (10/07/02)

Here are two pictures both taken in June of 1963 according to notes on the back of each. One shows #248 freshly painted before it had been weighed. Note the missing data. The other shows #293 and #248 after they had been weighed. The repaint data says R 5-63, so they were repaired in Rutland in May of 1963. Note the repaired, but still wrinkled, upper right side of #293. It is my understanding that four of these cars were repaired and repainted by order of Hudson Leasing in order to get them back into revenue service. The green paint scheme would have been a less expensive way to paint them and since the Rutland was no longer in operation, image was not an issue. I have seen pictures of damaged cars parked in Rutland during the strike and it would be interesting to see if some numbers match and also to know what other cars may have been repainted green.

-Bill Badger

Rutland 248 and 293

A (10/17/02)

Thanks to Bill Badger for posting those shots of the all green PS-1s! One question that is hard to answer from the photos is what color the lettering is - white or yellow? If yellow, it certainly appears to be much more pale than the yellow stripe on the RS-3 behind the 248. If white, it is not a very bright white. So -- which is it, pale yellow, or off-white? Can anyone clarify this?

-Mark Jacob

A (10/20/02)

I have prints of the same photos Bill posted (above), which are available from Bob's Photos. In my opinion the lettering is clearly yellow. Remember, if you are modeling the Rutland, the railroad was not operating when these cars existed, so it's kind of a Catch 22.

-Jeff English

A (10/22/02)

I have a print of the photo with two cars and the lettering is definitely yellow. As to the difference in shades, I'd be flabbergasted if it were anything but the standard Rutland green and yellow. Remember, this photo was taken months before the final abandonment order is issued and the Rutland is repairing the cars for the lessors. Would they have bought a different paint to do this job, or just used the paint that was on hand for maintaining/repairing the existing boxcar fleet?

-Dick Dermody

A (10/22/02)

In regards to the all-green PS-1's done in Rutland for Hudson leasing. The Rutland was using up whatever they had in the shops for paint, so the green was either from Hudson leasing, purchased for them, or something that was kicking around in the shop. The same goes for the lettering. I believe it was a light yellow - almost a depot buff color - that they used for MofW lettering over the years. Remember, those folks in Rutland were true Yankees. The railroad that never owned a roller bearing car!

-Steve Mumley

A (10/27/02)

The pale yellow/ buff color seems to have been used for some lettering in the 1950's and early 1960's. Another example is caboose #28, which was painted boxcar red with yellow lettering while it was used as a bunk car at Bellows Falls in the '50's. The yellow was definitely a pale yellow.

Speaking of yellows, there is a picture on page 35 of Green Mountain Rails, by Robert Willoughby Jones, that shows one of the green and yellow PS-1 boxcars and a caboose in the green and yellow scheme. The yellows are not the same. It looks as though the yellow paint used by the Rutland on their wooden cars was not necessarily the same as the factory yellow paint applied to the PS-1's and the diesels, or perhaps it faded quickly.

The depot buff that Steve [Mumley] mentions [just above] is quite yellow out of the can but quickly fades. I wonder how particular the Rutland was about the exact shade of yellow paint?

-Bill Badger

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Q. #125   (09/04/02) 

At RPI, we are planning on redoing our Vergennes scene to more closely resemble the prototype. We are looking for any plans, dimensions or even pictures of the original highway underpass. I guess that since in our original model we didn't model the underpass, we never bothered to document it, and now on a recent trip we discovered it has been replaced by a modern, wider bridge.

-John Nehrich.

A (10/19/02)

I don't know if this will help, but I have a blueprint of the Vergennes grounds. It is 31" long by 10" high and a scale of 1" = 50'. It has a freight house, station, 2 milk stations, ice house, stock yards and water tank locations. As far as the underpass is concerned, it would have only been the width of the road.

-Alan Lathrop

A (05/26/03)

For what it's worth, here is a photograph of the Vergennes Route 22A overpass showing the bridge and track from track level looking north, with a brakeman sitting waiting for an opposing train, in the first edition of Shaughnessy's Rutland book.

-Mike Carson

A (05/26/03)

Regarding John Nehrich's question about the Vergennes underpass, I don't have a lot of info, and what I have is anecdotal, but here is [my response]:

I grew up in Rutland in the 1950's and early 1960's and had relatives in Burlington whom we visited several times a year by travelling up Route 7. That, of course, involved tackling the underpass in Vergennes.

I don't have dimensions or photos, but I do have memories of that particular underpass because it was somewhat unique, and a definite traffic hazard!

At that time, Route 7 went right through the center of Vergennes, rather than bypassing the town as it does now. I remember northbound traffic going up a hill with houses and stores on both sides then, on reaching the top, turning right onto what appeared to be the main street in town. Near the depot the road ran on the west side of the tracks, and crossed over to the east side via the underpass. Northbound traffic made a sharp right-hand turn immediately before the underpass, basically a 90 degree turn. The underpass was less than two lanes wide so only one vehicle could pass at a time. After exiting the underpass the road turned north again, but the curve, as I remember it, was more gradual than the one entering the underpass.

The problem was that, because of the sharp turn on the west side of the underpass, neither northbound nor southbound vehicles could see oncoming traffic ... a real problem since the underpass wouldn't allow two cars to pass. Consequently, cars from either direction would stop before going through the underpass and blow the horn, then wait a bit. If things appeared to be clear they would proceed slowly, and with crossed fingers!

I seem to remember the bridge itself being a short deck girder type.

There was an almost identical, and equally (possibly more) hazardous, bridge situation on the D&H where it crossed over the road from Castleton Corners, VT to Poultney, VT. That one was replaced with a grade crossing after several very serious accidents.

I hope this is of some help.

-Jay Conant

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Q. #126   (10/07/02)

I have several photos and a scale drawing of Rutland RR official car No. 99 and would like to get some information on the car. I know that it was built for Dr. William Seward Webb, President of the Wagner Car Co. by Wagner in 1891. It carried the name Ellsmere and may also have been called Puritan. It seems to have also been called Ethan Allen. The steel underframe was applied and steel vetstibules reinforced at the Pullman plant in Buffalo in 1915. It was sold in 1960 to Nova Scotia Pulp Ltd. of Port Hawkesbury, N.S.

1 - Please advise me about the names of the car.

2 - What ultimately happened to the car? If it was scrapped, who owned it? When and where did this happen?

I need the info for a book I am completing. Thank you for your help.

-Richard McQuade

A (10/14/02)

Ellsmere was built by Wagner in November of 1888, Wagner Lot 16. Rutland records show that #99 was purchased from Dr. Webb in 1915 and rebuilt by Pullman in 1916. Rutland AFE records for the six month period ending December 1959 show #99 being sold to Chas. T. Main Inc. of Boston, MA. #99 ultimately ended up in care of a museum in Halifax, NS and was scrapped when the museum folded in the late '70's or early '80's, the date escapes me.

-Glenn Annis

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Q. #127   (10/18/02)

Do you know if railroad lanterns were ever made for the Rutland or Green Mountain railroads, by way of Steamtown, in the early 1960's?

-William Steinman

A (05/26/03)

The Green Mountain Railroad did a batch of Adlake Kero shorties plus Green Mountain's own 1st edition at the Falls in 1988. The second edition of "Rutlands" and "Green Mountains" was in 1993. There was a third edition in 1998 of "Green Mountians". There is a strong possibility that Mr. Glen Davis had a batch done at Steamtown, but my sources are not quite sure. There is no difference between any [of the] editions.

-Paul Hefty

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Q. #128   (10/19/02)

I am looking for any pictures of the E. E. Wisell coal business in Middlebury, Vermont. The Wisells ran the coal business from 1908 to 1930 and it is said that the office in 1909 was in the Rutland Railroad freight building.

-Alan Lathrop

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Q. #129   (11/03/02)

Before the Panama Canal Act of 1915 prohibited the Rutland Railroad to own, operate, or control any waterway in the Great Lakes, the Rutland Transit Company and its predecessor waterway shipping enterprises served Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Milwaukee, and Chicago from Ogdensburg. Where did the Rutland Transit Company terminate at Chicago on Lake Michigan? Did any of them own any port or docking facility there?

-Denny Wozniczka

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Q. #130   (12/01/02)

At Bellows Falls the Rutland had a brick freight house which they used at the turn of the century. It appears that sometime prior to 1933 the Rutland moved into the B&M wooden freight house across from the station. Does anyone know the date that the Rutland moved over and the date the structure was built? The Rutland signs on the B&M freight house appears different in two B&W photos. One sign is possibly a black or green background with white or yellow lettering; the other is possibly yellow background with green or black lettering. Does anyone know what era each were used and the actual colours?

-George Dutka

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