Remembering the Rutland
Q. #1 (09/22/99) Anyone out there know anything on the NORWOOD & ST. LAWRENCE RAILROAD ? Like the paint scheme (colors) of the 70 tonners before Pickens purchased the road. Any info on the RACK cars they had on their roster for years? Also, the N&StL purchased about 26 wooden box cars from the Rutland around 1941. What did they use them for?
A. (09/26/99) The 7/99 issue of Railpace has a couple of 1971 pictures of N&St.L locos in a medium blue paint scheme with yellow striping and black underframe. One photo show two locos hauling a number of PC/NYC? gondolas with logs/pulpwood. I too am interested in hearing from anyone with info on N&St.L locos, equipment, and operations from 1950s thru present.
A. (09/26/99) The only freight cars on the N&St.L roster listed in the 1953 Railway Equipment Register are as follows: 1 Flat (#1), 7 Racks (#38-60) and 21 more Racks (#64-99). Apparently the N&St.L's main commodity must have been pulp wood. Is it possible that the Rutland box cars were converted to pulp racks? There is also one each of the following listed: Passenger-Baggage Combine, Air Flanger, and Snow Plow. Any information on the lineage of these?
Question #1 Follow-up (11/02/99): In regards to my questions on the Norwood & St Lawrence, thanks to Bill
Brigham and Rich Parkola (answer above), I have enough info to
model a N&StL 70 Tonner. The July 99 Railpace article was great
and the color shots were just what I was looking for. The N&StL purchased a wooden
Combine from the Rutland I believe in the 1940's (I will have to look up the data in the
car accountant's book) and then when it was retired it was used as a tool shed in
someone's back yard in Norfolk,NY. This was in the 1960's. Still looking for info
and photos of what the rack cars looked like and what happened to the Rutland 7000 series
box cars that they purchased in 1942.
Q. #2 (09/22/99)
Mention is made on the web site [Recommended Rutland Resources]
of a Blackhawk film/video of Rutland steam and diesel (Green
Mountain Railroading on the Rutland). Is this still available???
A. (10/13/99) As an aside to the Blackhawk video commentary you might want to note that Phil Jordan is selling copies of the Rutland RR video (entitled Remembering the Rutland -jrd) he showed at the Manchester Convention. As other movie footage comes to light, he is planning to expand the tape. I got my copy of the Blackhawk film a few years ago from Pentrex. I have no idea if it was a one time thing or they have rights to it.
A. (09/30/99) I did a little research over the weekend. Here's the scoop -
the original Blackhawk video has absolutely no information on it in terms of names,
addresses, phone numbers, etc. It is only 20 minutes long, some of which is taken up
by text panels describing the upcoming scene.
Q. #4 (09/21/99)
Subject: Rutland Vans. Realizing fully that "color" is highly
subjective and at times an emotionally charged subject, what color in the Polly Scale line
of paints is close to the red used on Rutland vans in the immediate Post World War II
era??? Any mixes would be fine as well.
A. (09/24/99) The only photo I've seen of any Rutland caboose, post WWII [that] I trust for it's rendition of Rutland's Cherry Red is on page 27 of the Plant brothers' Boston and Maine in Color from Morning Sun. The red of the CN herald on the nose of the Fairbanks-Morse C-Liners can be verified as very close to the color known to be used. No. 28 in the background is a darker red. I've gotten a good rendition by adding 2 drops of black to 78 drops of caboose red in the Floquil line. Similar proportions of PollyScale should be close enough. (I found that a 3:77 proportion mixture was too dark a maroon color, 1:79 not dark enough.)
Q. #5 (09/17/99) Can you please help. What is the best commercially-available paint to represent the Green used by the Rutland on its RS 3 diesels?
A. (09/24/99) It appears that Modelflex
Dark C&NW Green is a match for the RS's as both roads received them about the
same time this is probably correct. Anyway it works for me in 'O" scale.
A. (09/24/99) I like Floquil's CNW Green. Any of the commercial CNW greens would be in the ball park, although the water based paints seem to be lighter than the Floquil paint and Scalecoat seems to be darker. For a water based paint mixture, combining Modelflex's CNW green with a judicious amount of their new NH Hunter Green might well give results consistent with the Floquil.
A. (10/10/99) The Rutland diesel green can be exactly matched using Pro Color GMRC Green, it was made using an original Rutland paint sample and matches paint chips that Steve Mumley and Bill Brigham took from the RS's.
Q. #6 (09/14/99)
Do you know the height of the "RUTLAND" lettering on the standard passenger
cars? The Champ Decal set I have has two sets for passenger cars
with it. One is the usual 5-6" and the other appears about 12". I
assume that the former is correct, but some of the pictures I have seen make the lettering
appear larger than that. Looking forward to hearing from you.
A. (09/14/99) All of the (copies of) classification drawings in my collection that are legible seem to indicate that the RUTLAND lettering was 6" high. All of these are for lettering ABOVE the windows and indicate that the letters are to be equally spaced vertically on the letterboard (same distance above and below the letters to the top and bottom edges of the letterboard). Numerals are 5" high. I do not know what the letter height was for the later, under-the-windows scheme. Anyone?
I believe that the Champ lettering is less-than-perfect in the execution of the letters vis-a-vis Rutland practice and that a recent Newsliner article addressed this issue. Does anyone remember which one?
A. (09/16/99) The question about passenger car lettering - The numbers are 5 inch and as necessary the "0" any other numbers that are rounded are slightly taller to compensate for optical illusions that they are not the same size. I believe that the lettering on the letter board is 7 inches high. At the moment I can't find the reference where I found that. Also note that none of the currently available sets are very close to the correct Rutland lettering style. There are several ongoing attempts to get accurate lettering sets. Also the Railworks artwork is pretty good. I didn't have a good look but the "D" is definitely too square.
Best regards,-Ray Muntz
A. (09/16/99) It so happens that I
have done a fair amount of work on Rutland Passenger cars lettering. During the
steam era, the road name on the letterboards was pretty consistently about 7" tall,
and very wide -- wider than the champ lettering. The numbers were about 5.5"
inches high as was the word "MILK" on milk cars and the road name on cars with
the road name below the windows. The "mail" lettering on RPO's was
4" high (per gov't regs). The diesel era lettering is a real hodge podge -- all
different sizes and colors. Most of the cars were lettered using a type face like
that on the cabooses, or a condensed version of that. I'm gradually working on
artwork for some decals, but I have so many other demands on my time that I haven't gotten
Q. #7 (09/14/99)
Could you please tell me what colors are correct for Rutland depots and other
buildings. Thank you in advance. I appreciate your help.
A. (09/15/99) The color scheme for the Brushton station was solid green (kinda drab green) and the Moira station was top half cream colored cedar shakes and bottom, again, the drab green. Thats all I can lend to the request. Brushton was mainly a freight stop and Moira was both freight & passenger.
A. (09/16/99) In regards to Rutland
station colors, Bill Badger's articles in Volume 8, No. 4 and Volume 9,
No. 2 [of The Newsliner] are
as good as we've got for the time being.
A. (09/23/99) I guess what it
has come down to is the following:
I noticed on the Chatham trip that those buildings had the olive green paint as well as
the Manchester station. When looking over the Car House in North Bennington I
noticed that paint scheme on some of the boards that were covered up over the years and
didn't get the new paint.
A. (10/11/99) As to what colors are "correct" for Rutland depots and other buildings, the answer depends on what building is being modeled and at what period in its history. The earliest paint scheme that seemed to have common usage was a goldenrod yellow body with black trim. In researching Manchester station (ca.1851), those were the earliest colors of which I could find any evidence. However, Danby is also a first generation station but I could find no evidence of yellow and black. Danby station was extensively rebuilt around the turn of the century so perhaps all the evidence was removed. In any case, the yellow and black scheme was followed by a gray-green body color and dark green trim scheme. The gray-green is similar to Polly Scale British Infantry gray green. The dark green looks like Dartmouth Green. When this switch was made is unclear. Steve Mumley told me some years ago that he understood that the goldenrod and black was at least pre 1920. I have a hunch it was replaced by the gray-green as part of the 1900 creation of the "new" Rutland. It seems logical that the pre-1900 separate lines would have had a variety of different color schemes. The yellow and black scheme may have been a CV color scheme, however on the one CV station I have examined closely (Roxbury), I can fine no evidence of yellow and black. Some of the stations on the Chatham seem to have had the gray-green and green scheme without the underlying earlier yellow and black. It also appears that for at least part of this period the window sash were painted red.Just to complicate the matter, North Dorset (ca.1895) seems to have always been painted white with dark green trim. Some time around 1950 the Rutland started using the yellow/buff and dark green that Steve Mumley describes. Perhaps this was part of the new green and yellow image that came in with the reorganization as the Rutland Railway. The only way to sort this out is to do some careful paint examination on remaining buildings. I plan to do another color article, specifically on buildings, in a future Newsliner. If anyone is interested in joining in, let me know. In the meantime, the only way to know for sure what a particular station was painted is to examine the building. If the building is no longer standing, the job gets harder.
A. (08/28/00) I have a problem with one of the postings [above]. Shortly after the Rutland shut down, Bill Brigham and I made a tour of the entire O&LC. We took pictures (and a few other things). The point I am trying to make is, as I recall, the color was not green as reported, but light brown, almost a tan. There was no trim [color] at all. You may verify this with either Bill or Steve Mumley. If it was ever green, it must have been long after the abandonment.
A. (09/11/00) Earlier this summer I sat down and reread the articles that Glenn Annis and I did on RUTLAND colors back in the Winter 1996 and Summer 1997 Newsliners. I have been doing some more reasearch on stations and I think it may be getting to be time for a Part 3. I also thought that there might be new information that would suggest corrections to our original articles. However, upon rereading them, I can't find anything that I would change. So I would suggest that anyone with color questions should start with those articles. I will try to put together some additional material on building colors, because that is the one area that could use more information.
A. (12/10/00) One of the peculiar things about historical research is there never seems to be a "final" answer. In a previous reply to question # 7 I said I could see no evidence of "goldenrod" on Danby depot. Now that the building has deteriorated even more, part of a wall has fallen outward and been rained on. The water has lifted the paint and turned up beautiful samples of "goldenrod." It looks very close to Polly Scale D&RGW yellow. I have also been doing some work on the South Londonderry station of the West River RR. The CV ran the West River for most of its life, so I would assume the depot would have been painted CV colors. There is evidence of "goldenrod" under lots of other paint, so I suspect it may have been a CV color.
Q. #8 I have a Rutland
Ballast car kit made by F&C and sold by the Steam Shack.
At about step 6 or 7 the instructions say to install the door closers.
Unfortunately, it does not say where they are to be installed. I know which part
they are because the instructions say to install two per door, so they
A. (09/15/99) I just finished
building this car and found the same frustration. This is an excellent kit, but the
door closures are its weak point. As indicated, they are the L-shaped
brackets. There are metal straps toward the left and right ends of each door.
The short end of the L attaches to the bottom of these straps. The bottom of the L
is horizontal. The long leg of the L has a small groove near its end. The
underside of the rod, installed just previous to the door closures, rests in this groove,
so the long leg of the L goes on the underside of the rod. Because of the groove,
there are left and right L's. The long leg of the L's go on the outside of the door
strap. That is, to the left of the left strap and to the right of the right strap.
A. (09/16/99) I do have the kit in my "to build" file. I think what is refered to by "door closures" are straps that run from the rod supported by the rod brackets put on earlier in step 7 to the metal straps holding the door planks together. If you look at the photo of a ballast car on p.36 of Robert Wiloughby Jones's Green Mountain Rails. The closures work by the rod being rotated so that they allow the doors to drop from the inwards-canted position to vertical. Hope this makes things clearer.
Q. #9 (09/17/99) Does anyone manufacture correct Rutland wood caboose decals in HO scale (with or without the "Route of the Whippet" slogan)?
A. (09/17/99) CDS Lettering Ltd. at one time sold a dry transfer version of this scheme with the "Whippet" slogan included. It was CDS #429. Can anyone enlighten me as to their current availablilty? I don't know about decals; again, does anyone know?
A. (09/24/99) The CDS set (which is readily available direct from CDS or from the better Rutland-minded dealers such as John Cook in Bellows Falls) is the best set. The set included with the F&C caboose kit is the only set of decals worth the paper they're printed on, and the more-recent versions of them are reasonably well printed, though not quite as good as the CDS set.
Q. #10 (09/26/99) Can someone please tell me what the specific topics are for each of R. W. Nimke's books about the Rutland. Thanks. -Steven A. Schulman
A. (09/26/99) Sure:
Volume 1: Motive Power and Equipment
Also by R.W. Nimke and on the Rutland theme:
Betterments - Statistics
Copyright Ó1998-2003 Remembering the
Welcome History Rosters Modeling RRHS Save the Rutland Photo Gallery Milk Trains
Latest Revision Date: 22 Aug 2003